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The Twilight of Atheism
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| Hypatia |
Posted on 03/08/2010 00:54
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By Alister McGrath
http://www.christ...ml?start=1
`*`When words fail, music speaks. `*` Music is what feelings sound like.`*` |
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| Skeeve |
Posted on 03/08/2010 04:00
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Allahkazam!
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Very nicely done piece of christard propaganda.
To the casual reader it could sound as if the author was providing a balanced argument.
While talking about the inevitable decline of atheism, he can only use historical quotes, which gives the reader a sense that nothing new is happening in the world today regarding atheism.
Slowly, he builds his case by surmising the cycle of the rise of religion and societies, then the fall of religion and the gains of atheism. And since he's talking about atheism almost in the past tense already, his final paragraph tries to state that since it's dying, it simply must mean that religion is on the rise again.
Not a word about recent polls and numbers regarding increase in those that declare no religion or belief in deities. It's almost as if this article was written more than a decade ago.
Opinionated drivel. Presupposing facts not in evidence.
But, it will fool the christard sheep.
Opinionated drivel.
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."- Ezekiel 23:20 |
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| catman |
Posted on 03/08/2010 05:59
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Biased rubbish to make the Christian masses feel more hopeful about their religion (argument through popularity). Blecch.
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| derF |
Posted on 03/08/2010 06:19
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I beg to disagree with you Skeeve, but I felt this was a poorly written, poorly researched and unsupported pile of meadow muffins. It was obviously written for a specific audience (those still clinging to religion) because anyone who is versed in the subject can shoot the argument full of holes while remaining blindfolded. Thanks for sharing that with us Patia. It truly points out how out of touch with reality these people are.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter. |
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| Skeeve |
Posted on 03/08/2010 19:00
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Allahkazam!
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You disagree by agreeing?
Very nicely done piece of christard propaganda.
Opinionated drivel. Presupposing facts not in evidence.
But, it will fool the christard sheep.
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."- Ezekiel 23:20 |
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| seeker |
Posted on 03/08/2010 20:33
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Since when have Christians ever needed reality based arguments?
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| Sinny |
Posted on 03/09/2010 00:24
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Hmm I'm not so sure it will fool the majority of evangelicals since they are pretty much convinced the jesus is coming back in their lifetime and very possibly in this generation. To many of them the falling away is the rise in non believers [atheism] and rejecting of christ.
However, It's likely fool the average mainstream christian who doesn't follow the end time bullshit and the young kids who, like most adut xtians, don't know their own bible and religion.
Edited by Sinny on 03/09/2010 00:25 |
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| catman |
Posted on 03/09/2010 05:29
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Any person who is convinced of the real-world value of 'faith' is very difficult, if not impossible, to reason with. They have a perfect 'out' for it.
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| Doubting Thomas |
Posted on 03/09/2010 17:02
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I think it will fool those who desperately want to believe it, but most Christians will understand that Christianity is losing power on the country and more people are becoming nonreligious.
They can keep believing that atheism is dying if they want to, it won't hurt my feelings a bit. At least then maybe they'll stop worrying about how our tiny majority is trying to keep God out of schools, take his name off money, etc.
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| Theory_Execution |
Posted on 03/10/2010 12:58
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DT, their 'true' religion losing strength in politics and the growth of the irreligious is exactly what some of them are looking for, they can pus their end of the world fantasies then.
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| Kowboy |
Posted on 03/11/2010 02:04
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derF wrote:
I beg to disagree with you Skeeve, but I felt this was a poorly written, poorly researched and unsupported pile of meadow muffins. It was obviously written for a specific audience (those still clinging to religion) because anyone who is versed in the subject can shoot the argument full of holes while remaining blindfolded. Thanks for sharing that with us Patia. It truly points out how out of touch with reality these people are.
derF:
I disagree:
"Atheism was once new, exciting, and liberating, and for those reasons held to be devoid of the vices of the faiths it displaced. With time, it turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and careerists as religion does. Many have now concluded that these personality types are endemic to all human groups, rather than being the peculiar preserve of religious folks. With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair, atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively."
What makes you think athiesm is absent as many frauds, psychos, ect. as religion? I'm a non-supernaturalist, but I make every effort not to fool myself into believing that "my group" is somehow less vulnerable to the human condition than any other.
I only read the first page, but that was hardly poorly written.
Kowboy
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| seeker |
Posted on 03/11/2010 17:23
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Kowboy wrote:
derF:
I disagree:
"Atheism was once new, exciting, and liberating, and for those reasons held to be devoid of the vices of the faiths it displaced. With time, it turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and careerists as religion does. Many have now concluded that these personality types are endemic to all human groups, rather than being the peculiar preserve of religious folks. With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair, atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively."
What makes you think athiesm is absent as many frauds, psychos, ect. as religion? I'm a non-supernaturalist, but I make every effort not to fool myself into believing that "my group" is somehow less vulnerable to the human condition than any other.
I only read the first page, but that was hardly poorly written.
Kowboy
Unfortunately true, we are just as prone to greed, exploitation etc as any group. The difference is that we don't have a wretched little book from a couple of thousand years ago to justify our poor behavior.
The funny part about this quote, to me at least, is that the Christian writer acknowledges the excesses of christianity (the Inquisition, televangelism) and seems to be saying 'they are just as bad as we are'. Its a very odd argument, essentially saying, 'we all suck but we sucked first and we set the standard for sucking so come suck with us.'
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| Kowboy |
Posted on 03/12/2010 04:08
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seeker wrote:
Kowboy wrote:
derF:
I disagree:
"Atheism was once new, exciting, and liberating, and for those reasons held to be devoid of the vices of the faiths it displaced. With time, it turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and careerists as religion does. Many have now concluded that these personality types are endemic to all human groups, rather than being the peculiar preserve of religious folks. With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair, atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively."
What makes you think athiesm is absent as many frauds, psychos, ect. as religion? I'm a non-supernaturalist, but I make every effort not to fool myself into believing that "my group" is somehow less vulnerable to the human condition than any other.
I only read the first page, but that was hardly poorly written.
Kowboy
Unfortunately true, we are just as prone to greed, exploitation etc as any group. The difference is that we don't have a wretched little book from a couple of thousand years ago to justify our poor behavior.
The funny part about this quote, to me at least, is that the Christian writer acknowledges the excesses of christianity (the Inquisition, televangelism) and seems to be saying 'they are just as bad as we are'. Its a very odd argument, essentially saying, 'we all suck but we sucked first and we set the standard for sucking so come suck with us.'
seeker:
I am forced to agree, even though doing so strengthens derf's allegation that the piece is poorly wittten. In fact, you point out an example of the logical fallacy of "tu quoque":
http://grammar.ab...ueterm.htm
Kowboy
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| JohnH |
Posted on 03/12/2010 09:05
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If I may. There is a difference between poorly written and not correct. Someone could make a quite elegant argument that the earth is flat. It would not be true but it would still be elegant.
I am embarrassed to admit I read the whole thing. It was when it was originally posted and I will not go back and read it again. But I will comment on one thing that points out what I believe is the articles failing.
The author points out the intellectual failures of modern atheism by citing two people I have never heard of. I do not make a great effort to search out atheist "intellectuals" but I do try to keep up with what is out there. So I was a bit shocked by the two who were being chastised. I could think of several atheists who could be criticized by both the theist and atheist communities. This author chose two I had never heard of. I suppose, without any additional research on my part, this was because they were easy targets.
I think that poorly written is not necessarily what anyone intended to say. False in various of the premises perhaps but the writing was actually reasonably well done.
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| Skeeve |
Posted on 03/12/2010 14:34
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Allahkazam!
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Exactly what I said, you just used fewer words. 
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."- Ezekiel 23:20 |
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