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Guns in America, no background check needed
Theory_Execution
Just caught this video on youtube, dont know if theres any truth behind it, but it was interesting none the less.

http://www.youtub...annel_page

The video brings up the point of a legal loop hole in gun control laws of America with respect to 'collectors' at gun fairs. You can buy a gun/rifle, on the day without a background check, just a quick flash of your ID. This may have been on the big news channels in America, but I kinda doubt it, iv seen a few clips of Fox News.


*edit: clickable link
Edited by Skeeve on 10/14/2009 21:38
 
catman
I've been to a lot of gun shows over the years here in the DFW area, and only once have I ever seen anyone selling guns without a background check. Dealers aren't allowed to, and they are the only ones who rent tables at the gun shows. I have a Concealed Handgun Permit, so I don't have to pass a background check at gun shows since I was checked out thoroughly in order to get it.
 
Bob of QF
This "loophole" has been around since there've been private sales of guns.

I, too have been at gun shows-- and I've bought & sold guns from one private citizen to another-- no checks.

The dealers hate it; they have to comply with the rules (and all the honest ones do without fail). Yet, they often see their sales undercut by private collectors-- sometimes who buy/sell more than the dealers do.

Various ideas have been proposed to close this "loophole" but none are reasonably enforceable: how? Who's going to police the transactions? Where is the money going to come from?

Most gun sales are cash these days anyhow-- as many gun nuts fear government interference anyway. And many use an alias when buying/selling-- for the exact same reason.

Which compounds the issue.

I sympathize with the gun dealers-- they are complying with laws that are often in conflict, but because they have a license to keep-- they comply.

Among the various ideas kicked around, about the only thing I saw that was remotely workable, was requiring a nominal temporary seller's permit, if you sell even a single gun at the show. And-- to make this remotely acceptable, you would *have* to make the cost very low-- say $10, but more importantly-- you would *have* to provide free or very low-cost, computer-terminals so the compliance/background shit could be done right there at the show, immediately and with no fuss.

The effect would be that the honest sellers (the majority) could still sell their guns, with little additional fuss.

And the illegal sellers would move out of the shows into other venues-- which is fine. It would clean up the gun shows.

Which for honest people like myself? That's a good thing.
Edited by Bob of QF on 10/09/2009 10:41
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
Yeah, there are a few people walking around at the gun shows with a rifle/shotgun on the their backs with a sign saying what it is and what price they are asking. But that is no different from the classified ads in the newspaper, in which a person can buy anything listed with no gov't approved transfer. Why pick on the gun shows?

I think that in the final analysis, one must be responsible for his own defense. Those who are going to use guns for criminal purposes will always be able to find a way to procure them.
 
Theory_Execution
Gun crime in the UK is supposed to be increasing, and there arent many routes for guns to get into the country. Id say the main way historically has been soldiers bringing back souveniers from their time in war, but it no way accounts for all the illegal guns we have over here.

I think if I lived in America I would own a gun. But concealed and with me at all times, i doubt it.
 
catman
I got the concealed-carry permit because I sometimes have to drive through unsavory parts of Dallas-Fort Worth late at night. When I got it, one had to have a permit in order to carry a gun in a car. It is no longer the case, although many people don't know that. I have yet to carry a gun concealed on my person, although there may come a time when I do.
Edited by catman on 10/10/2009 14:44
 
Theory_Execution
Id have some sort of sniping rifle, and a shotgun, I dont know about the handgun.
 
catman
Neither of those is as handy in a car. I think a shotgun with a short barrel is probably the best house protection gun you could have, though.
 
Theory_Execution
Ye, I dont drive, and have no real interest in learning (then again if I was in america I probably would drive, is stupidly big).

Ye that was my idea about the shotgun, barely have to aim and will destroy anything in the way.

The sniper rifle would be for just playing with, going out on a range and picking off half inch squares at a a few hundred yards.
 
catman
I have couple of scope-mounted rifles. They are enjoyable at the target range. Ammunition has become so expensive recently that I haven't done much of it lately. I'm not good enough at it to 'pick off half-inch squares at a few hundred yards'! Maybe two-inch squares at a hundred yards.
 
Theory_Execution
Iv never done it before lol, I just remember in an old game I had there was a test day in which you needed to do that, and then you became a qualified SWAT sniper.
 
Bob of QF
catman wrote:
Neither of those is as handy in a car. I think a shotgun with a short barrel is probably the best house protection gun you could have, though.


Yep. I've a stainless pump-action shoot-em-gun in the hall closet. Loaded, but nothing in the chamber, so's I can do the "hollywood sound effect".... woe if whomever hears that, does not shout their peaceful intent... <eyeroll>

And? I've loaded with birdshot. Why, you ask? Simple: bird, at less than 15 feet (typical range inside a house) the shot acts like a slug-- but.. As soon as it strikes anything, it breaks up into teensy bits...it will knock a great honkin' hole in the first thing it hits, but do little or nothing after that. So what? you ask... it won't go through more than 2 layers of sheetrock, you see.... I'm not interested in accidentally taking out one of my neighbors, or my roomie for that matter.

So, it's birdshot for me. And yes, I've confirmed the above with actual practice-- best to be prepared for the recoil of the gun you intend to use, I think.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
Bob: Yeah, I would think a 20-gauge would be plenty. You didn't say what your shotgun is.

I have a .22 Magnum revolver next to my bed. It might not be the ideal weapon for protection, but at close range it should do the job, and it has virtually no recoil. A little 40-grain .22 bullet isn't going through a bunch of walls.
 
Bob of QF
It's a 12 guage, but you're correct: 20 would've done the job.

I also have a .40 semi under the bead-head (hidden, but within reach), and a little 9mm nearby (not loaded, like the 40, but full clip at the ready).

The smoothie is the one to go for, though-- it's the cheapest, too. I'd have to surrender it, if I ever had to use it in earnest. Likely I'd get it back, just not right away.

The amusing thing is, I won the 12pump in a contest...! One of the very few things I've ever won, and it's a Turkish 12 guage pump-gun. And yes, I've run several boxes through it, to be sure it's reliable. Nary a misfire in the lot. Open cylinder, minimum legal barrel. Max spread-- not really useful for skeet or clays, as such.

So, in the closet it went, after confirmation of function.

Smile
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
catman
Way to go, winning it in a contest! I've seen a review of a Turkish shotgun before. I don't remember what it was, but they liked it.
 
Theory_Execution
I remember as a child if my parents ever left me home alone for half an hour or a few hours (lol I have great parents, though some would see that as neglect I was ok in the end) I would prepare myself for the attack of any intruder.

I think I have mentioned this before, maybe was in a conversation not long ago.

What I would do would be to leave a weapon of some sort in each room, encase I found myself in that room. The flaw in the logic being the intruder would have a choice of weapons (usually knives out of the kitchen draw) to attack me with.
 
Bob of QF
Theory_Execution wrote:
I remember as a child if my parents ever left me home alone for half an hour or a few hours (lol I have great parents, though some would see that as neglect I was ok in the end) I would prepare myself for the attack of any intruder.

I think I have mentioned this before, maybe was in a conversation not long ago.

What I would do would be to leave a weapon of some sort in each room, encase I found myself in that room. The flaw in the logic being the intruder would have a choice of weapons (usually knives out of the kitchen draw) to attack me with.


Grin

Yes, but to your child's mind, they wouldn't do that, right? Smile

The problem of intruders gaining access to homeowner's defensive arms has always presented a conundrum.

Which is why I always thought the "single user" weapons were the way to go-- you lock in the weapon to you, specifically-- typically with fingerprint, or handprint or similar, so's it's transparent to the authorized user.

They could do this now, but there's a perceived (false, I think) "big brother" aspect that many in the gun world are resistant to.

Idiots.

I'd have one, if it was reasonably available....
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Theory_Execution
Id have them scared away or dead before they could do anything.

Its not a bad idea, the reader on the gun, but theres more that can go wrong with that sort of a gun compared to your point and pull simple machine.

Im sure for instance a big magnet would bugger it up. So they might not be able to use it themselves, but nor would you.
 
Hypatia
Stolen guns seem to be a huge business in America.

Does anyone have any idea whether or not stolen guns pass through gun shows and if so perhaps background checks maybe are not performed in association with that?

I would think there'd be few gun dealers worth their salt who would knowingly sell stolen merchandise at shows, but then I wouldn't doubt there are some who are either stupid enough, or some how don't know a weapon is stolen, who try it from time to time. It would be sellers, of course, who know a weapon is stolen who would happily skip background checks.

Does that happen much at the shows?
 
Bob of QF
Theory_Execution wrote:
Id have them scared away or dead before they could do anything.

Its not a bad idea, the reader on the gun, but theres more that can go wrong with that sort of a gun compared to your point and pull simple machine.

Im sure for instance a big magnet would bugger it up. So they might not be able to use it themselves, but nor would you.


MythBusters [tv show] demonstrated that even those rare earth magnets capable of lifting hundreds of pounds, are ineffective more than a foot away... I'm not worried about that.

Moreover, unless it was an electromagnet? Fixed magnetic fields do not bugger up electrics all that bad-- it's *moving* magnetic fields that make things go all wonky. And AC electromagnets are exactly that: a magnetic field that is reversing 50 or 60 times a second-- it's effectively "moving" across everything 50/60 times a second, as it collapses and re-establishes.

But, even then, distance is a factor. More than a foot? Nothing.

I'd be more worried about battery life, and whatever electro-mechanical thingy they use to enable the firing pin--- at some point, you have to translate electrical impulses into a mechanical one.

Unless, you use an electrical-fired bullet, like the German's famous G11 automatic assault rifle-- it used a rotary chamber, 11mm bullets with caseless ammo-- the ammo propellent was closer to rocket fuel than to gunpowder, and was square in cross section. The firing chamber was a cylinder that rotated. It had a square tube completely through-- not on the "axis" like a tire, but drilled from edge to edge. It rotated like a tire, and the tube would spin vertically. When the tube was pointing up (either end-- it fired 2 bullets per complete rotation), a bullet drops down from one of two ammo cartridges. The cylinder rotates 90 degrees-- now the tube points straight at the barrel. An electrical current ignites the square propellant. The bullet, now facing down the barrel, exits the chamber and travels down the barrel, picking up spin. Chamber rotates another 90 degrees in the same direction, and another bullet drops in from above. Rinse, repeat. Rate of fire is astounding......

....in any case, an electrical charge triggers the shot.

If we could design from the ground-up, as the Germans did, you'd eliminate an electric-to-mechanical gizmo entirely...
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
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