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RIP Steve Jobs
cheshiredragon
I'd have to agree with you there. The latest console I have is the Wii. the other two I have are the PS2 and Nintendo64. I refuse to buy a 360 or PS3. I think it is because I am extremely picky about the games I play. I think that is what you and I have identified, the simple game. That is why I like computer games. They have a difficulty level much higher than the console games. So much can be added to them. Just take a look at SimCity 4. I am still an old school gamer to playing Civilization 2, Age of Empires 2, SimCity 4, Fable TLC and the most recent Fable 3. I really like the game play that Fable has in choosing the path of good or evil...and of course I like the fantasy genre.
I used to have the dual monitor setup a few years ago, but it was to be able to switch back and forth between two terminal windows or keep a terminal up and another for information(Wireshark or other program) I may go back to it when I build my new comp in Feb.

If you have the link for that folding article I would like to read it.
That's right, I said it...
 
Theory_Execution
Here is the article:

http://cosmiclog....scientists

Now the mechanics of the game are simple, alter the shape of the molecule to reach a particular energy state, the lower the higher ranked you are.

But 'clocking' the game in this instance helps you solve a scientific conundrum.

I spent a lot of hours with age of empires, command and conquer tiberian sun but one of my all time favourites is Baldurs Gate - theres one consoles ruined.

You may want to check out Mount&Blade.
 
Bob of QF
Theory_Execution wrote:

I hate consoles now. Liked them when they were the only device I could game on (had a commadore 64, atari, nintendo, super nintendo and played on the neighbours sega genesis).

My reason for hating them - they have dragged down the complexity of PC/desktop games. The companies have moved to please the casual gamer, so the keys are limited and the game play limited so that you can pick it up in five minutes.

I think gaming should be testing (which is why that article about folding was quite interesting to me).

I like my dual monitor PC because I can listen to Ask An Atheist, type on atheiststoday and play some sort of PC game.


I've had dual monitors since roughly 2000 or so-- would never willingly go back.

These days? I run 3 panels in eyefinity mode (all three acting as a single, super-wide panel-- an AMD/Raedon thing). I love that real-estate.

And yeah, I'm on win7, 64 ultimate. Mainly because of two things:

1) it's the devil I know
2) it plays the games I want to play (at worst, I run DOSBOX for the older games)

I dabbled with Linux about a year ago, and gave it up:

1) I couldn't get reliable 2 screens to work
2) It did not play the games I wanted to play

Strike two, and I put it aside for now-- I'll get back to it someday.. Maybe.

---------------

I had a brief experience with Apple stuff, and the frustration factor was extreme-- it was either the apple way (rarely how >I< wanted to do it) or not at all. One of the curses and blessings of Windoze? If there is one way of doing something there's 100 ways or more of doing it.

That adds complexity, sure-- but it means that there's probabily a way in there that suits your habits. Smile

--------------

consoles? I have (both used) an XBOx original and a 360 (first gen). I'd play them more, but for the controllers... I hate them all (controllers). I have not dabbled with Connect, but the concept seems... foreign. I have pretty good finger-eye coordination, but whole-body coordination? Not so much... I'm a geek, not a sports'o'phile. Grin
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
cheshiredragon
Ah yes, I remember that article and I didn't even have to open it. Some kids solved some molecule that the scientists couldn't even figure out. They were thinking about making more games like that to get out to the masses.
C&C was awesome. I recently purchased a re release of those games and it was titled C&C: The First Decade. I am trying to find a game by cavedog titled Annihilation but my attempts have been futile. I haven't tried for a while so I may look again. I never played Baldurs Gate, but those were my brother's exact words not too long ago.

ooooo, just read the review on Mount & Blade. I like the AoE style of actually being on the field in battle and being able to 'hire' a company, have them gain experience and putting them in set roles. I will be checking this one out.
That's right, I said it...
 
Bob of QF
Let's see... in case anyone cares?

I've played and loved:

Doom 2 and up, including the plethora of variants (a shooter based on the DOOM engine, of which there were dozens, Hexen, The Gunman, etc.... )
Quake 1 and up, including the variants (I may be mistaken about Doom-- I often confuse Quake/Doom engines here)

Unreal 1, 2 and various variants based on it's engine.

Half-Life and it's variants (but not yet Portal 2.. waiting on the price to drop... I'm a cheap bastard, for sure Smile )

Diablo 1, (including Hellfire), 2 and eagerly awaiting the forever-delayed Diablo 3

A few of the Might and Magic series, but not remotely all

Dungeon Siege 1 & 2 (is there a 3?)

The various Lucas films first person shooters, from the original Dark Forces right on up to Jedi Academy. I have not delved into Force Unleased, as the reviews indicated it's a horrible console-port...

... and I've been burned too often on horrible console ports.

Whereas I seriously enjoyed Halo 1? Halo 2 is considered to be a terrible port, and I have not tried it, nor any of it's children.

I played Duke Nuke'em and am amused that it's sill a working franchise... apparently they are still working on the next gen Duke? After, what... 10 years? Or more?

I like Serious Sam 1 & 2, but did not stick with it.

.......

But my all-time favorite series?

Deus Ex. And to a lessor extent, Deus Ex 2 (not nearly as good as 1)

I'm waiting for a chance to demo Deus Ex 3, as it simultaneously appeared as a console and a PC game, so I expect it to be dumbed down even more than 2 was (over 1). I won't be burned by a $60 game...

... and yeah. Consoles have positively ruined computer gaming, by dumbing down the interface to fit within the idiot-designed console-controllers.

meh.

Give me a properly designed keyboard and trackball shooter? And I'll wax the floor with a controller-character I don't care how many hours he's spent in his mother's basement playing... a one-to-one mapping of that trackball to the screen's position always beats the relative-motion mapping of a game controller.

Grin
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
cheshiredragon
Bob of QF wrote:

it was either the apple way (rarely how >I< wanted to do it) or not at all.


Question... how long ago was this with Apple. It used to be like that a LONG time ago as I mention in a previous post about my PPC G4. That thing is a beast. In all honesty I used to despise Apple up until about the time they came out with OS X. Soo, 2001-ish? The newer systems are much nicer, easier to use and run everything. They can run all OSes, therefor ALL programs Grin
That's right, I said it...
 
catman
The last game I really cared about was "Parsec" on my TI 99/4A.
Grin
 
cheshiredragon
Whew, good to know I was 2yrs old when that came out. Best. game. ever.
For some strange reason i can vaguely remember seeing this when i was very young. I just don't remember where I was or exactly how old.
That's right, I said it...
 
seeker
No love for the Warcraft and Starcraft franchises?
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana
 
Theory_Execution
Seeker: I played Warcraft before it went morpg in a big way, frozen throne was it? Enjoyed the short story, but its no great in my eyes.

Other than Baldur's gate and Planescape Torment (got my current email address from a game called Revenant, liked the art on the box, enjoyed the game as I played it but I didnt get far at all into it before I lost the game) I am not really into the magic ones (most recent game with magic I got was Dragon Age II, full of homosexual love and such - I dont know why sexual love appears in these games at all - games are for bloody murder and retribution).

Cheshire: Mount and Blades master stroke is the fighting style, you wasd your horse and mouse your guy, so you ride round at speed hacking and slashing. You can fire arrows, throw spears, axes and knives from the horse and a part I really liked, they stick.

If you throw an axe at a guy and he pulls up his shield, it sticks in his shield, if he catches too many his shield breaks.

Bob of: I have a copy of Dungeon Siege somewhere (that has magic and I had forgotten) which I was getting into, but then realised this witch was constantly regenerating golems to attack me, soooooo I sort of thought id skill up a bit..... thats an easy way to kill the enjoyment of a game.

A housemate at the first year of uni told me about Deus Ex, I played a bit.
 
Theory_Execution
Ooo Oooo OOOOooooo nearly forgot.

Another thing about Mount&Blade, at the end of a battle, say your 40 knights vs their 300 assorted soldiers, your right side arm and leg are drenched in blood.
 
Bob of QF
cheshiredragon wrote:

Bob of QF wrote:

it was either the apple way (rarely how >I< wanted to do it) or not at all.


Question... how long ago was this with Apple. It used to be like that a LONG time ago as I mention in a previous post about my PPC G4. That thing is a beast. In all honesty I used to despise Apple up until about the time they came out with OS X. Soo, 2001-ish? The newer systems are much nicer, easier to use and run everything. They can run all OSes, therefor ALL programs Grin


I'm rather unforgiving of such failures... but it was a while back, yeah.

I do own an old classic iPod player-- but never permitted iTunes to infect my main box-- it wiped out the test-box I tried it on, taking over and rewriting all my MP3's without telling me first! Unforgivable. So I hacked my iPod to work with WinAmp only-- no iTunes. That was awhile ago, and eventually I got tired of "The CrApple Way" and shelved the iPod.

The most damning reason? No way to create simple, multiple album on-the-fly playlists-- no way to cue-up multiple albums for a day's worth of tunes, then have that list just go away if I want, or I can simply re-press "play" and it continues.

In fact? I could not even >>get<< then damn iPod to make a useful playlist from within the stupid user-interface... and no way to delete (from the device's menus) the random (and useless) playlists it seems to auto-generate ...

... so I switched to Zune, who has an actual user-friendly interface. How the iPod dominated the market continues to mystify me, even now... I guess people are willing to bend to the Crapple Way, especially if they do not know there are better, more friendly ways to do stuff.... ignorance again.

Those two things? Have damned Apple to me, and I do not quickly forget.

And yeah... I am all too aware the Zune is abandon-ware now... MicroSuck is hardly better in many ways...
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Bob of QF
cheshiredragon wrote:
... They can run all OSes, therefor ALL programs Grin


Not... really. They appear to have a proprietary video system that many games simply cannot work with.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
cheshiredragon
Bob of QF wrote:

cheshiredragon wrote:
... They can run all OSes, therefor ALL programs Grin


Not... really. They appear to have a proprietary video system that many games simply cannot work with.




hmmm, I've never had a problem with the video system. Explain how it is proprietary.

As for iTunes and the iPod, I think only a few people ever had the problems you did, hence it's success. I've used iTunes several times on a Windows system and never had a problem. I have even fixed 'broken' iPods with it. You shouldn't be so unforgiving or you will miss out on many things. I am confident to say that if you ever contracted Salmonella from chicken that you would eventually eat chicken again, right?
That's right, I said it...
 
Bob of QF
cheshiredragon wrote:

hmmm, I've never had a problem with the video system. Explain how it is proprietary.

As for iTunes and the iPod, I think only a few people ever had the problems you did, hence it's success. I've used iTunes several times on a Windows system and never had a problem. I have even fixed 'broken' iPods with it. You shouldn't be so unforgiving or you will miss out on many things. I am confident to say that if you ever contracted Salmonella from chicken that you would eventually eat chicken again, right?


Games. Since I no longer use my PC for employment, but for entertainment, it's primary function is video games and communication. Obviously, anything made since roughly 1995 will work as a communication machine, that leaves gaming.

90% of the games I prefer to play simply do not run on apple hardware, hardly surprising as apple made a deliberate choice to not participate in the computer game industry.

As for iTunes? Since I have so many choices, I prefer to avoid companies with such draconian practices. If it was a choice of 'either or', then maybe-- but only on a test box first. Burned twice, 10 times as careful.

As for your salmonella? I would forever mark that brand of 'chicken' as "never buy this brand again". And why not? I have a plethora of choice, when selecting brands of chicken. I don't blame the chicken-- I blame the processors of said chicken, and more specifically, the company who was lax enough to have permitted the salmonella in the first place.

Just as I don't blame the hardware-- I blame the creators of said hardware for their attitude. I hate "the apple way" (do it their way or go elsewhere. Okay... I will. ). It is counter-intuitive to me, with respect to how I prefer computing. I think machines should bow to us, not the other way around (apple way). Since Windoze usually has 100's of ways of doing pretty much anything? I don't have to bend to the "will" of the computer-- it bends to my will instead.

As for your argument ad populum? (iTunes is successful, therefore it's just peachy) Most people do not know they have a choice, when it comes to how to do something-- to these non-thinkers, they simply give in. As a programmer? I know better-- an electronic device does not have to be programmed to behave in such a clunky fashion-- the interface can be literally any way they engineers dream it to be. But if you write the interface late on a Thursday afternoon before product delivery on a Friday? Then.... you get what you get...

Apple concentrated too much on appearance, and hardware function (robustness, long battery life, etc). And paid little or no attention to how the interface works, or how people may wish to use the item. And people were attracted to the "oooh! Pretty!" aspect, and were willing to bend over backwards to work the kludge-interface.

And I'm hardly unique in this perspective.... if you want to argue from popularity... <irony>

Wink

Now...... how do I get down off this damn soap-box.... my TV show is coming on, and I.... must.... watch... teh.... show.... the mind-control masters command me to...

Grin
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
Theory_Execution
I had a third generation ipod, the one with the touch wheel and four touch buttons under the screen. It was the one before the click wheel.

I liked it, it could hold all of my music and I could play it for quite a few hours. I didn't realise until years later that I had actually been robbed of an experience of the music I had due to the poor quality of the head phones that Apple bundle with the expensive device.

I have a some cheap Sennheiser now and the difference was outstanding. The ipod died after three years and they wanted 160 to look at it to find what was up with it.

I now have a Sansa Clip+ which has about 8Gb on it, plug and play charger and it accepts a typical headphone jack. It cost me 40 (or $60US) and I have fallen on it after getting hit by a car and it works still.
 
Bob of QF
I've had 3 Sansa brand MP3 players myself-- they Just Work.

And as far as I know, they are still working-- I've given them all away.

My current set is a couple of spinning-metal disk Zune players.

After playing with one in a BestBuy, I found they would work the way I want them to work-- on-the-fly cueing up whole albums, in sequence, takes 2 clicks per album. Slick.

But Microsuck has abandoned them, so when they die (and they will eventually) I'll have to look elsewhere for ones that have >30gig capacity.

But they won't be ipods-- I don't use pre-created playlists. I don't wish to have to think about what I will listen to before I'm actually ready to listen.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
cheshiredragon
Bob of QF wrote:

cheshiredragon wrote:

hmmm, I've never had a problem with the video system. Explain how it is proprietary.

As for iTunes and the iPod, I think only a few people ever had the problems you did, hence it's success. I've used iTunes several times on a Windows system and never had a problem. I have even fixed 'broken' iPods with it. You shouldn't be so unforgiving or you will miss out on many things. I am confident to say that if you ever contracted Salmonella from chicken that you would eventually eat chicken again, right?


Games. Since I no longer use my PC for employment, but for entertainment, it's primary function is video games and communication. Obviously, anything made since roughly 1995 will work as a communication machine, that leaves gaming.

90% of the games I prefer to play simply do not run on apple hardware, hardly surprising as apple made a deliberate choice to not participate in the computer game industry.

As for iTunes? Since I have so many choices, I prefer to avoid companies with such draconian practices. If it was a choice of 'either or', then maybe-- but only on a test box first. Burned twice, 10 times as careful.

As for your salmonella? I would forever mark that brand of 'chicken' as "never buy this brand again". And why not? I have a plethora of choice, when selecting brands of chicken. I don't blame the chicken-- I blame the processors of said chicken, and more specifically, the company who was lax enough to have permitted the salmonella in the first place.

Just as I don't blame the hardware-- I blame the creators of said hardware for their attitude. I hate "the apple way" (do it their way or go elsewhere. Okay... I will. ). It is counter-intuitive to me, with respect to how I prefer computing. I think machines should bow to us, not the other way around (apple way). Since Windoze usually has 100's of ways of doing pretty much anything? I don't have to bend to the "will" of the computer-- it bends to my will instead.

As for your argument ad populum? (iTunes is successful, therefore it's just peachy) Most people do not know they have a choice, when it comes to how to do something-- to these non-thinkers, they simply give in. As a programmer? I know better-- an electronic device does not have to be programmed to behave in such a clunky fashion-- the interface can be literally any way they engineers dream it to be. But if you write the interface late on a Thursday afternoon before product delivery on a Friday? Then.... you get what you get...

Apple concentrated too much on appearance, and hardware function (robustness, long battery life, etc). And paid little or no attention to how the interface works, or how people may wish to use the item. And people were attracted to the "oooh! Pretty!" aspect, and were willing to bend over backwards to work the kludge-interface.


I have a video I just made for the sole purpose of demonstrating the hardware since I can sit and talk shit all day and not prove a thing here over text.
I show a demonstration of Fable 3 and it's capabilities and also question the so called "Apple way." So, you can answer those from the video I'd appreciate it. Smile

I'm not going to come up with another analogy because anyone can talk their way out of those. I was simply trying to state that you are not going to stop doing something because of a bad experience.

I am not defending the use of iTunes. I don't use it either. Like you said we have choices and I exercise that right. every piece of software(except for Windows 7 and Fable 3) are free/open-source apps. Sure I could pay for photoshop, but why when I can use GIMP? It has the same capabilities and is free. The same could be said for MS Office, but I choose the free route and go with OpenOffice.org.
I am also not defending the iPod. I don't have one either, never have. I went as far as discman then jumped ship. now I have an Android phone that has a 16GB mini-SD card and works just fine. I can even hook it up to any stereo system, including my car and have hours of music.
I don't think Apple concentrated too much on appearance. It was actually a smart idea. I drop my laptop, it will survive. Drop a PC laptop from the same height and watch it shatter. I know it will shatter, I have seen me drop one in slow motion. Robustness is what I was waiting to hear...that is also a smart choice and so is battery life. I don't understand what you are saying about the interface and what you want changed about it. They have had the same interface for the last 2 decades. I can't say that about Windows. First there was DOS, then the interface changed in Windows 1, changed again in Windows 3.1, changed again in 95, changed slightly in 2000, again slightly in XP, major change in Vista, Win7 just got rid of the suck called Vista and if you have not seen Win8 yet then you are going to be in for a huge surprise. It is the change equivalent from 3.1 to 95 was. Also the one thing Apple did right is switch to a UNIX code base. MS finally got with it with Vista containing the MinWin kernel and is somewhat UNIX like, but not perfected. The whole purpose of the MinWin kernel is to have apps run in their own little world so that if they do crash they don't take down the entire OS with them. Linux, UNIX have always doe that, Apple started with OS X and MS finally caught up in Vista.

I now return the soapbox to you, sir Grin
Thank you, I am glad I have somebody with a brain to rant about over this stuff. Usually I get "fuckin fanboy!" from other idiots who don't know what they are talking about. However, I am not a fanboy. If I was then I would ONLY buy Apple, which I don't. In February I am building a badass gaming PC.

BtW, I will get the video up later. I don't have time right now. I may also remake it because I am horrible at making videos and explaining things on the fly.
That's right, I said it...
 
Theory_Execution
OpenOrifice.eurghh I have that installed on me home puter. I dont really have a use for it, and many of the other progs I do use are open source.

I have a copy of Paint Shop Pro X, that sucks system resources like they were going out of fashion.

When I first made the current main desktop, I installed Ubuntu, I liked the bootup time and its sourcing of drivers and connecting to networks - huge improvement over XP (stayed well clear of Vista).

Windows 7 initially offered a similar boot speed (slower now as I have applications starting right away) and also connected pretty well with things.
 
Bob of QF
Cheshire, I had a nice long reply to your post (nothing confrontational, just conversation) but alas, my computer burped (my bad-- I was clicking a number of things, and accidentally clicked "close" for firefox...) and it vanished into christian heaven... <smirk>

I may well be unjustified in my avoidance of apple's products, but as I had pointed out (and subsequently erased) I have any number of choices at present, and it's hardly comes down to 'either-or'.

Moreover, I find I insist on being in control of the mechanics of my computers-- it's construction, etc, is something I enjoy fiddling with-- not something you'd care to do with the closed shop of apple stuff.

As for your statement about appearance? I've seen websites who bragged that all apple products had to pass muster from Jobs' himself-- if he didn't like the looks of it? Back to the drawing board it went. He appeared to be obsessed with the final appearance, for good or ill.

Mostly it didn't matter, but his obsession with clean lines did ruin more than one apple computer, for want of a way to connect it to the greater universe. Grin

And I'm with you and Theory_Execution: Open Source is 'da bomb'... I have deliberately chosen to go that way, where and when ever it is practical.

I have Open Office, and have had since oh, 2004 or so? That was when I finally quit using Office 2000, my staple since, well 2000.... prior to that, my legitimate copy of Office 95/97 (or whatever it was called). OO is stable and it Just Works.

Although I must admit, I have not tried programming it-- I used to make some side-cash-money writing macros (really, VB programs) in Office for people. Some of those were herculean projects, too... larger than other pure-D compiled stuff. But I digress.. I'm told there is a programming language in Open Office, but I haven't looked.

As for GIMP? I'm quite familiar with it, and it certainly is easily as capable as the PhotoShop bloatware... and just as complicated to use, too. Grin I use FotoGraphix instead-- my needs are very modest, when it comes to a graphic engine, and this one Just Works. I've also used ArtWeaver, but it's way more capable than I need, and as a result, way more complicated.

T.E: I'm sorry to hear that about Paint Shop Pro X, as I had seriously considered purchasing it, in lieu of the PhotoShop-monster.... (I despise Adobe products as giant bloated leach-ware... avoid if possible... Grin)

As I said elsewhere, I flirted with Linux for a bit, and fully plan to return to it someday.

But I have drunk the Kool-Aid of Micro$uck for too long-- I find I have become accustomed to the bitter taste.... Frown So I'll stick to Win7 Ultimate for present.

I plan on skipping Win8, by the way-- it's the next Vista as far as I can tell... M$ is due for another stinker. Grin

Anyone forced to use Windows ME? <laughing out loud> Made one long for the safety of DOS, that one did.
Quantum Junction: Use both lanes

Reality is that which is left, after you stop believing.
 
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