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American English versus actual English.
General-Pryce
Felt the need to post this thread after reading the Kent Hovind thread and the word pedophile kept cropping up. Its just another example of the English language being butchered. And not as in it has evolved as language does, some words have had letters removed or altered in such a way that you can only assume the person making the changes just couldn't spell and decided to make it more phonetic.

Now obviously, as Americans of the 21st century I cannot blame anyone here, but at what stage in history was it decided that instead of spelling things properly, they would be spelt in what ever way seemed to fit.

I only bring this up because it has started to bleed through over here, flavour and colour have lost their Us, organise has inexplicably had it's S turned into a Z (and that's ZED by the way!). Paedophilia has had it's first A removed.

As I say to American and Canadian tourists who insist on asking if there's a bathroom (why, do you need a bath?) or those that ask if I can leave my flashlight on (in what way does my torch flash?), I say "Use our language, don't butcher it".

And another thing. Text speak, isn't it just so annoying! C U L8R, I LV U, GR8 etc.

What has happened to language. Some people shouldn't be allowed to be aloud!
 
Hypatia
I'm sorry to disappoint you GP, but as far as spelling the word 'pedophile' the way I do goes (or any other words), it's the only way I've ever known to spell it, being an American and all.

When and why the spelling was changed here is unknown to me, as for one thing no one consulted with me. That may have occurred 'before my time', so to speak - as in before I learned to spell in general. In other words, I spell the way I was taught to spell - as an American.

Personally, I've never had any intentions what so ever of influencing Britons to spell the way we American's do, so it is news to me that this is something that is creeping into the British way of spelling.

As for text speak - I agree - I'm not fond of it at all, and when I see it it's really rather foreign, and requires more effort to decipher than I want to put into it.

Thanks for not holding us 21st century Americans entirely, personally responsible for butchering the English language. I knew we could count on you to go somewhat easy on us.

To be honest, I actually do like the way the words 'colour' and 'flavour', for example, look as compared to the way we spell them. However, to be an American and spell the way the Brits or Canadians do is to (perhaps) come across as somewhat ostentatious to other Americans.

Not that one should care what others think.




 
Skeeve
Park in your driveway and drive on the parkway....yadda, yadda, yadda. ;tongue;
"The world is my country, and do good is my religion." - Thomas Paine
 
General-Pryce
Hypatia wrote:
Thanks for not holding us 21st century Americans entirely, personally responsible for butchering the English language. I knew we could count on you to go somewhat easy on us.



Cheers! I don't see the point in getting pissy at you guys over a development in the language, I just get a bit annoyed when it starts to infiltrate the British High-street! I was out the other day when I saw a new coffee shop called "Flavor". I had the urge to return that night and insert the U! I still might lol!

As for the text thing, you won't believe this! It's so, well, wrong:

There was some English exam paper last year that allowed students to write in text speak as it meant they could write quicker! I wonder if they would have been as willing to accept the exam paper if the students used journalistic short-hand instead?
 
Cynic
See, in America if you ask someone to hand you a torch, you'd get a flaming stick. I gather in the UK you might get one or the other? Sounds like we win. ;-)
 
catman
I like the British spellings of colour, flavour, honour, etc too. But 'paedophile' is taking it too far; it's just too cumbrous. Is it called a dipthong when the a and e are joined? I think that's one of those Greek things. The whole subject gives me diarrhoea.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
Cynic
I can't see colour without pronouncing it differently in my head. Granted, I'm from western PA, where people are as likely to pronounce it "keller" if they aren't careful.
 
neilmarr
Much of what is taken as modern Americanisation of Standard English, GP, is actually anything but. The 'ized' you mention, for instance, is actually an older form of English, still popular in Victorian times, and retained in the US. It is still perfectly correct British Standard.

Other US Standard spellings are often simplifications of foreign words hijacked into the English vocabulary with corrupt spellings in the first place.

Whereas some accepted US grammar can fairly be seen as a corrupt version, other examples ('gotten', for instance) are also hangovers from archaic British Standard and actually more grammatically correct than their current UK forms.

Neil
 
derF
Having been involved in theater for much of these past three decades, my views on dialogues will probably be more utilitarian than others that are defensing their own local take on the language. Having performed Shakespeare, Wilde, Chekov, Ibsen, Steinbeck, Tennessee Williams, Kesey, and Coward, (among many others) I am acutely aware that every author and every story has it's very own setting complete with dialogues and accents. It is part and parcel of the human condition and something to be celebrated.

But worry not, as wordy as many of my posts admittedly seem to be, I will not revert to iambic pentameter any time in the near future.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
Cynic
How long do we have?
 
General-Pryce
neilmarr wrote:
Much of what is taken as modern Americanisation of Standard English, GP, is actually anything but. The 'ized' you mention, for instance, is actually an older form of English, still popular in Victorian times, and retained in the US. It is still perfectly correct British Standard.

Other US Standard spellings are often simplifications of foreign words hijacked into the English vocabulary with corrupt spellings in the first place.

Whereas some accepted US grammar can fairly be seen as a corrupt version, other examples ('gotten', for instance) are also hangovers from archaic British Standard and actually more grammatically correct than their current UK forms.

Neil


You're supposed to be on my side Grin

I didn't know the Z thing was older, still, colour has a U in it. I like language changing and morphing, like I said, I just get annoyed at the whole "Flavor" thing in ten foot high letters on an Edinburgh street, although I guess if I want authenticity with language "Flavor" should be in Gaelic anyway.

I guess I'm simply a moaning Englishman, but damn it's fun to moan.
 
Theory_Execution
I think the strange part for me here, is that someone is perturbed by six foot high american-english words in their Scottish city... what ever happened to gaelic?
 
Doubting Thomas
General-Pryce wrote:
And another thing. Text speak, isn't it just so annoying! C U L8R, I LV U, GR8 etc.


There are a lot of kids nowadays who are so used to Textspeak that they don't know how to spell stuff out in proper English. Of course there's also the idea that "we have a way of communicating that 'they' don't know." Or, a sense of rebellion against the adults by overuse of text speak in normal typing.

What I personally really can't stand to see is all the "leet speak," or to put that in leet speek: 1337 5p33k. That is so much favored by teenage "h4x0r5" (hackers) who think the more they use the cooler they are. Of course what it really shows is that they need to get a life.
You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me and not you.
 
derF
General Pryce I have heard scholars of the English language speculate that the language is always evolving at a steady pace. Studies of ancient documents lead many to believe that it would be difficult for a modern man to understand English as it was spoken as little a 500 years ago. (Many find it impossible to decipher Shakespeare's writings.) It is OK to lament old ways lost to the modern language but in truth it is inevitable. It's partly a popularity contest. And if enough people pick up a new way of saying or spelling words the scholars will incorporate those changes into their latest text books and dictionaries.
I'll drink to that. Or anything else for that matter.
 
catman
The only languages which don't change through time are already dead. Still, it's good to be able to communicate in a grammatically correct way (according to the generally accepted standards of the time) and spell correctly when necessary. It's all very well to have in-group jargon and slang (musicians certainly do), but we all need to have a commonly understoof language.
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
neilmarr
***The only languages which don't change through time are already dead***

What an astute obervation, Cat. It's quite obviously spot on when you see English words and phrases infiltrate 'purer' languages.

But I often wonder how I would describe to my grandfather (who died in 1955), in as few words, the kind of thing I sometimes write myself these days without a second thought:

Quite simple, Granddad; open a search engine, pull up favourites, hit AtheistsToday, register with username or password (you'll get confirmation mediately in an email) ir log in and scroll through to the forum you want. Read the posts, put your cursor in the quick reply window and type your rsponse. Hit post reply and it's up there. You can, if you like, option an email response to your posting and then click on the link to get right back in there. Savvi? Cool.

And that's what most of us here would now call plain English!

Neil
 
Theory_Execution
Now im interested to hear what you think he would have said Neilmarr. Would it be something akin to 'Stop speaking Gobshite'?
 
neilmarr
A fair guess, TE. I remember a story my Old Man told me when my granddad once came home from the Leith docks (he was a pattern-maker at the shipyards) for the family evening feed of haggis and neeps or whatever.

He waited for aolute silence and then gravely announced: "Answered the telephone, the day. Aye ... the telephone! Ah heard every word. It was just like the mon wiz stonnin right next tae me."

Amazing to think that my own grandfather was of a generation that, in adulthood, would answer the phone for the first time and then, with great pride, describe this fascinating new experience in technology to an awe-struck family when all were sitting comfortably and suitably silent.

Neil
 
catman
neilmarr: Except for 'email', all the words you used in your hypothetical message to Granddad already existed, but some of them had new computer-related definitions which didn't exist during his lifetime.

Just imagine how archaic today's technology will seem in a generation or two (if a catastrophe doesn't occur before then). How primitive our Internet will seem by then!
"If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas." - General Sheridan
 
General-Pryce
catman wrote:

Just imagine how archaic today's technology will seem in a generation or two (if a catastrophe doesn't occur before then). How primitive our Internet will seem by then!


I remember penny a minute Internet (or was it penny an hour?) and how slooooow it used to be! I remember being awestruck by Windows 3.11 and the amazing things we could do.
 
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